Listening to Howie's reminiscing about the ironies of the business, makes one wonder if he and the group don't derive a kind of mixed-up, bluesy satisfaction from being the bruised and battered outcasts of the Scene. Like when he says: "We're not the pretty boy sort of act, you know. We play what we like, the way we like. We're only interested in good musicianship. Take Griff, for instance (he was enthusing over the group's lead guitarist Brian Griffiths) "you won't find a better guitarist in all of Liverpool. Man, he's a natural. He just feels what he plays. He's very, very self-critical - and too self-effacing. I suppose that's why he's so underrated."

I asked Howie if he was now satisfied with the sound of the group and how come there seemed to be so many eruptions at one time.

"Look, man, there should only be one leader in a group, that's obvious, isn't it? Well, my group all know the score. If anyone's late for a performance, I tell 'em straight. The same goes if I want a fast number to follow a slow one. You've got to balance a programme and they've got to see it that way.

"Of course, at times there's bound to be a clash of temperaments. Like with Derry, for instance. He's a nice guy - yeah, man, he just doesn't like offending anybody, he's so nice. He sort of leans over backwards to be nice...you know? We call him the Reverend Wilkie because he's so nice...but, man, he's got his own ideas about numbers and sometimes they don't fit in with what I consider to be right for the show.

"Another character is 'Spread' - you know, Phil Whitehead. He's very intelligent, University and all that jazz...deep Scouse accent...best boozer in the group....But I'm satisfied with his bass work.

"Frank Wibberley enjoys a drink too - I guess we're all boozers in this group - but, man, I rate Frank the best 'skin' man in this town. You just tell him what you want and he makes those drums talk. It's all so easy with Frank. Of course, he's been in the game for some time now. He's a reader as well, you know.

"We had a rhythm guitarist-cum-singer in Billy Hughes but he left. I think the sax and guitar provide a sufficiently full melody sound. In fact I think we've got a good, clean sound now."

I said: "What about Freddy Fowell?"

"Man," Howie responded, "his being with the group has helped us a lot, especially when we play the Jive Halls. He's pretty good looking...a great showman...a born comedian and an actor and his singing style is solid. He's a great entertainer!

"But listen, man, don't get the idea we're like so many other groups who think they've got what it takes because they get a scream-a-day per person off a clamour of fickle-minded footlight fans, They're on the road to nowhere playing to the crowd - and playing lousy 'music' too (put that word 'music' in quote marks, will you?).

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